cybersoc.com

would guido really "not get out of bed" for £21k in blog ads?

The Press Gazette picked up on my recent post where I quoted research suggesting that bloggers earn more (£21k) than journalists but significantly less than holders of Bachelors degress (£29.6k).

In response, Guido Fawkes, the most high profile political blogger in the UK (with 12.2% share of polical blog of reach), who also gave a presentation at the WeMedia Fringe event, posted a comment where he said:

I wouldn’t get out of bed for that.

Graham over at NoodlePie made $146 from AdSense in September. During the month he had 24,715 unique visitors and 44,152 page views. Graham is ranked 13,737 by technorati, with 1,429 links from 185 blogs. His traffic rank was 361,629 on Alexa.

Guido has a rank of 3,095 on technorati, with 2,250 links from 600 blogs. His traffic rank is 75,217 on Alexa.

Guido is one of a number of high profile political bloggers involved in messagespace, which claims around 1.5 million page views per month on it's partner's blogs. 12.2% (see above - I used the top ten because most of them are involved in message space) of that is around 150k page views a month, roughly 3.5 times that of noodle pie.

NoodlePie made $146 in September, which converts to £78.75 for the month - just under £1000 a year - off approximately 25 - 30% as much traffic as Guido has.

I don't, of course, know for sure that Guido gets 150,000 page views a month. He could get ten times that (although it seems unlikely he does). But what I do know is that, even if he is getting as much as 1.5 million page impressions a month, it seems unlikely that he's making more than twenty times the amount noodlepie is making off it's google ads - that is, it seems unlikely that Guido makes more than £21k off the ads on his blog.

I don't have any problem with Guido. In fact, I liked the guy when I met him and do ocassionally read his blog because it's a good read. All I'm saying is that unless he's lumping his consultancy, speaking and other income in with his blog ads income, I just can't see how he can claim he "wouldn't get out of bed for that [£21k]"

[I only used NoodlePie as an example because I had access to his stats and blog ad revenue, which he posts openly. He wasn't in anyway responsible for this post, nor do I have any idea whether he would agree with anything said here. I use his blog, by the way, as an example of a "good blog" whenever asked for such examples. Do have a look.]

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my bbc radio interview with howard rheingold

My interview with Howard Rheingold appeared on BBC Radio 5 Live's Pods and Blogs last night. You can listen to it online. The programme is here and the interview, which lasts about 10 minutes, starts at 26:30. (While listening, do check out the Pods and Blogs blog that's part of the BBC Blogs Trial I'm currently project managing.)

We talked about the common themes between his books, the differences between mobile phone and social software usage in the UK compared to the US, and participatory media.

Howard appears in photo with Ian Forrester who you'll find more of at CubicGarden. I've posted additional photos in my flickr stream.

the blogger vs mainstream media thing keeps following me

For some reason, my del.icio.us is absolutely overflowing with "bloggers vs mainstream media" links:

• Niel McIntosh at CompleteTosh thought he had almost recovered from the debate which, not long ago, made him contemplate chewing his arm off in frustration. Then he points us towards....
• this piece by Linda Jones for the Press Gazette titled "don't be deluded, a blog does not a journalist make" which links to Graham...
• Who pleads, over on the ScooptWords blog, that "bloggers be journalists, journalists be bloggers"
• this whole thing, of course, really came to a head at the wemedia conference and the fringe event that I organised (with a bit of help) where Suw Charman let off a bit of steam with her presentation Why We Media Sucked
• after which I had to comment

Dan Gillmor has usefully summarised recent (never ending) debate on western shores, where we find:

• The dean of Columbia University's School of Journalism, Nicholas Lemann, trying to stir things up the insightfully titled "Amateur Hour" in the NewYorker
• which got Jeff Jarvis' knickers in a twist
• which led to Steven Berlin Johnson calling a truce, or something resembling one, by asking that anyone wishing to engage in the whole "bloggers vs journos" argument do so without raising one of the 5 points he says aren't at all useful, from which he links to...
• Jay Rosen's attempt to end this all way back in January 2005

Funny thing is, someone just emailed to tell me that he'd spotted a post on CompleteTosh which links to a comment I made on Steven Berlin Johnson where I linked to the NewYorker piece which he'd been avoiding reading because he's a subscriber and his copy doesn't arrive until tomorrow.

Obviously, this is a debate that just keeps following a lot of us around...

Which reminds me of "The Bloggers":

<< update >>

Jeff Jarvis points us towards baristanet where Debbie Galant who offers up a juicy example of what Lemann missed and the bloggers got.

<<another update >>

Jay Rosen rejoins the fray - thoughtfully, incitefully, engagingly... and Jeff Jarvis spots Rebecca MacKinnon joining the fray

comment is free, engaging with audiences and thoughts about the MSM vs bloggers thing

Georgina Henry, editor of the Guardian's Comment is Free, writes in today's print edition about getting out there and engaging with the audience:

"On good days I think this is the most exciting new frontier for journalism - the immediacy of the debate, the excitement at watching readers engage with the big (and occasionally trivial) issues of the day with wit, verve and insight make print seem sluggish, out of date, even a bit dull.

Other days, when I have spent hours removing the anti-semitism and Islamophobia that dances round any piece about Israel/Palestine, and the incoherent abuse, the swearing, the false statements, the ill-disguised misogyny, the intimidation and the downright nastiness that fuels so many comments, I wonder whether Guardian values - free comment, but fair comment too - are in danger of being drowned out in an anarchic, unmoderated medium populated, it seems, by weird men. I look with fondness at the rigorously edited paper, and the polite discourse on the letters page.

The answer for most media companies developing blogs... is to pre-moderate comments. We have deliberately decided against that, only requireing commenters to register, because we want to keep the conversation as free flowing as possibly. So What to do?

Stung by one particularly brutal comment on a piece by a young Muslim woman we had recruited to blog, I did what Emily Bell, editor of Guardian Unlimited, advised and entered the fray myself..."

As you'd expect, a lot of people told Henry to stop whinging but others provided some useful insight and advice. You can find the post and resulting 200+ comment discussion here. It's nice to see Henry, and some of the other "bloggers", getting out there and engaging with their audiences - as Henry points out in the article:

Guardian columnists have taken to heart that blogging is about more than just writing your piece and disappearing once the conversation starts. They have started, as a matter of course, going back into the debates they have generated to talk to their readers.

But I'd like to see a news or media organisation take it one step further than this, to actually engage with the conversations taking place OUT THERE. It's all well and good having a "blog" that paid members of staff contribute to and members of the audience can comment on. That, however, is not really blogging.

Blogging is a technology and a technique and, in this sense, mainstream media usually forgets about the second bit. Bloggers look at their inbound links and use tools like technorati (Guardian Unlimited profile) to see who is talking about their stuff and linking to them. They go in search of this and other content to read, excerpt, link to and comment upon. They also post comments on one another's blogs. Neil McIntosh, assistant editor of Guardian.co.uk, did it when he stepped out from behind the fences to post a comment here, as did the guys behind WikiTravel who commented on the same post. So too did the guys working on ScooptWords who recently joined debate about the soon to launch service here.

That's what blogging is and what bloggers do - they step off their bully pulpit and go down in the pits, and when they're done they take home a few souvenirs to post up to prove that they were there and that they survived it. That is the conversation that bloggers always tell non-bloggers about and it's the one thing that's, so far, completely lacking in mainstream media blog efforts. So what's in it for mainstream media?

* by going out and finding content, then bringing it back (excerpting, linking, commenting on) you're able to get lots of "free" content (the effort to go out and find is closer to traditional journalism techniques, and probably cheaper and less open to bias, than waving your big contact us flag in the air and hoping to find some needles in the insuing haystack)
* by going out and posting comments elsewhere, you're truly joining the conversation and, in doing so, you'll reach new and different audiences for your content
* if done correctly, it will be trust in your people and your brand
* think of it as a cheap way to get audience research
* because of the way that search engines like google work, taking into account how many links you're getting and from what sites, encouraging more debate about your content - wherever that debate takes place - helps your google page rank (Thanks to Tim Ireland for helping me understand this!)

Let's face it, without mainstream media a lot of bloggers would have little to talk about - they'd either lack the content to comment on, would know nothing of the celebrities, personalities and politicians they write about, they'd lack the analysis to disagree with, and wouldn't have access to the facts and figures they need to provide their own analysis. Many bloggers actually need mainstream media, and increasingly mainstream media will need bloggers.

Marrying the two together in a way that's useful to both sides might not be that hard to do if mainstream media learns to blog and by that I mean figuring out that blogging is BOTH a set of tools and a technique for using those tools. This will build trust between MSM and bloggers and it's only then, when there is trust and greater understanding between the two sides, that the whole bloggers vs mainstream media thing will go away.

[podcast version of this post]

wemedia fringe - the stats

We media fringe event
Originally uploaded by cubicgarden.

It's been a few weeks and I forgot (which is somewhat typical of me) to pass on the stats for the wemedia fringe.

* We had 150 on the guest list and over 120 people turned up and/or managed to blag their way in on the night.

* We raised £120 for the venue, £20 of which came from the cybersoc.com google ads for the month

* Coverage of wemedia the fringe can be found at http://www.cybersoc.com/wemedia/

wanted: citizen journalists - competitive pay and benefits

With the potential to start earning as much as $5 (£2.68 / EU 3.92) per article TODAY, I bet they'll have queues of "citizen reporters" waiting to sign up for their Out2 Press Pass. Now we can all be like Dan Gillmor...

a piggie in the middle on the msm vs bloggers debate

I'm tired of talking about the we media forum already. I guess the idea of the event was to bring together two spheres that need and feed off each other so that they could argue about who was going to be more important to the future of the news and media world. At least, that's how the week felt to me. Plenty of other people have discussed the disconnect, the insular nature of various "conversations", the misunderstandings, the lack of attempts to understand, whatever...

I find myself in the somewhat awkward position of being employed by a massive news and media organisation whilst, at the same time, having a personal blog and being part of that world as well. Perhaps that gives me a viewpoint that's potentially beneficial to both sides - I hope that's the case so, instead of adding to all the chatter (just have a look on technorati), I've decided to make a list

• many, but not all, mainstream media people think that most blogs are web based diaries about people have a cat that's just had kittens (and some of them are)
• most, but not all, mainstream media people don't think bloggers produce professional, well researched, quality content (many don't, some do)
• mainstream media companies often enjoy huge audiences, some bloggers also enjoy huge audiences and these bloggers most certainly can and will erode some of the market share of MSM
• one of the reasons that mainstream media enjoys these large audiences is because people know their brands but, as more and more brands emerge, and content becomes more global as it's increasingly distributed online, those brand names will probably matter less to media consumers. So what? As Tim Ireland demonstrated at the We Media Fringe, most people use sites like google to find websites, EVEN when they know the name of the brand and search sites/indexes use the number of inbound links to a site, and the promenence and permanence of the sites making those links, to determine where a website will appear in the google listings. So what again? Try searching google for "liar" and you'll get a page about Tony Blair as the first result - with linking being such an integral part of blogging, it's entirely possible that mainstream media brands are or soon will find themselves moving down, rather than up, the google search results page. MSM needs bloggers to talk about, and link back to, their content, otherwise MSM's content is going to become harder to find, audiences will disappear, and MSM will find itself in a less dominant position.
• Most, but not all (the Guardian, which integrates blog content into it's print newspaper is a shining example of how to do it) of MSM hasn't woken up to the fact that adding links to blogs can be beneficial in that it helps audiences explore other viewpoints, adds authenticity, acts as a check upon reporter's neutrality, etc
• Many bloggers would love to get links from MSM because of the traffic, and new audiences, this can bring.

MSM will increasingly need bloggers to link to them in order to avoid the erosion of audiences that could occur as their brands mean less to media consumers and as their content moves down the google search results page. MSM would also benefit from bringing new voices and viewpoints into their coverage. The MSM audience would benefit from this exposure to new ideas as it would give them the opportunity to make more informed choices about who to trust, what to believe, and how to feel about the world around them. Many bloggers need MSM for stuff to blog about. That's perhaps a bit contentious but, I think, it's certainly true for many bloggers who comment on what they've seen in a newspaper, on television or wherever. Many bloggers would like MSM to send them some traffic and possibly pay for some of their content.

So, some suggestions from my position as a piggie in the middle:

MSM needs to stop talking about what's wrong with blogs and start highlighting, linking to, and embracing the good stuff that's out there. You don't need to own and control everything to have an important role in the world. Informing your audiences that there can be and are other points of view is a good thing (does the fact that Amazon and iTunes recommends related items make you buy fewer of them?! Of course not...).

Bloggers need to stop complaining that MSM is too powerful and start thinking of MSM as yet another distribution channel, like putting a podcast on iTunes or using feedburner to make your RSS feed available. If you can figure out how to get your content, or at least links to it, on the same page then you'll be able to offer audiences a real alternative and can use that to express your views and creativity more widely.

So how are we going to do it?

we media fringe - coverage

I'll continually update this page with links to stuff created by people who attended and/or covered the we media fringe. Let me know if you've published something: robin at cybersoc dot com

Photos: "wemediafringe" is the #2 tag#1 tag of the day on Flickr!

Video: Roy Peterson has posted the first of his videos (Chris Yapp) from the fringe on NowPublic

Loopzilla has posted video of the presentations by Paul Evans, Guido Fawkes, and Neil Dixon on NowPublic.com

Audio: http://www.podcastnation.co.uk/podblog/ and/or http://funk.co.uk/funkblog.html

blogRelations reports that id3 Magazine has posted a podcast interview with Neil Dixon and Dean Whitbread of the UK Podcasters Association who they caught up with at the We Media Fringe

blogRelations points to a PodCast by a guy named Hugh of Suw Charmans talk at the We Media Fringe

Blogs:

Graham trades his noodles for a hotdog on his way home from the fringe.

Jemima Kiss, covering the fringe for PaidContent.org rediscovered the passion so lacking in the We Media Forum.

Jemima also had fun at the wemedia fringe.

A blog called Denkun Uber has written something about the fringe. Sadly, I have no idea what it says.

Martin Stabe, from the pressgazette hung out with the student journos (thanks!) and reckons the We Media Fringe represented a call to action that could, just maybe, help make day two of the We Media Forum better than the first.

Andrew Lih blogs about Suw Charman's talk at the Fringe, titled something along the lines of "Why We Media Sucked"

Freedonuts at the Revolution is going to have video of most of the event but, for now, has a few photos of the TallSkinnyKiwi guy.

The Blogger News Network calls me nice and complains about all the BBC people. I reckon he's right, there probably were a few too many BBC people there but, thankfully, most of them were either people who get it, co-conspirators who helped me organise speakers, or people who don't quite get it but want to. Now if we could just organise a "blogging for suits" evening...

Jeff Jarvis turns up at the end of the Fringe but neglects to blog about it - yoo hoo, Jeff.

Neil Dixon, who spoke at the fringe and recorded audio for BBC 5Live's Pods and Blogs, reckons I wandered around all night looking like a rabbit in the headlights

Guido woke up at 7.55am the next day to blog about the Fringe.

Nico MacDonald didn't like the fringe at all. In fact, he seems to have revived his blog, dormant since 2004, to have a bit of a rant about it. He reckons the organisation sucked, the speakers didn't refer back to WeMedia the conference enough, and that people chit-chatting at the back detracted from the event. He's written useful summaries of the main points made by each of the speakers.

wemedia fringe - a big thanks

Well, we did it. We managed to hold an interesting, well attended, productive and provocative fringe event alongside the We Media Forum. I hope, and think, that it was much more than just a social event for the conference - and feedback from speakers and the audience suggests that, in some ways, it succeeded not only in bringing disparate people together, but also in encouraging them to have a meaningful conversation.

Thank you to everyone who provided help and support for the event including:

Mandy Berry for believing in the event and letting us use her great venue. Eric the IT guy for helping set up the wifi, projector, etc. Kevin Anderson, Ian Forrester, Graham Holliday, and Alfie Dennon for suggesting and helping organise speakers. Scott Rafer, Lucy Hooberman, Gloria Pan and Richard Sambrook for understanding the idea and for providing encouragement to actually do something about it.

Special thanks also to our presenter on the night, Alan Conner, who phoned me to offer his assistance and probably never thought I'd take him up on it. He presented with knowledge and humour - fantastic!

And, of course, a super huge thanks for the speakers on the night. Without you it wouldn't have been possible to bring together such a varied audience and to provide them with a stimulating evening. Speakers, in order of appearance, were Chris Yapp (Microsoft), Suw Charman (Open Rights Group), Ben Metcalfe (benmetcalfe.com), Michael Tippett (nowpublic.com), Tim Ireland (bloggerheads.com), Paul Evans (nevertrustahippy.blogspot.com), Neil Dixon (britcaster.com) and "Guido Fawkes".

There were also a number of people providing coverage of the event, ranging from main stream media from at least three countries to podcasters, vbloggers, bloggers, flickrers, and the student journalists. Apprently someone has audio taken from the line out on the microphone amp and at least two people have video of nearly the whole event. Who knows what else there is out there! Please please please email me links to your stuff, whether it's a photo, a blog post, a video, a podcast, or whatever.

But, I think most importantly, thank you to everyone who turned up and joined in the spirit of the event. I am, at nearly 1am, seriously buzzing from all the ideas shared and friends made tonight. How very very cool! ;-)

You can send those links or comments to me at: robin at cybersoc dot com

I'll post up the details of how many people attended (as far as we can tell) as well as the amount of dosh raised by passing the hat around as soon as I have the details.

come along to the wemedia fringe

We do have space left at the venue so please do come along...

See post below for venue information.